No More 'do follow' — Back to 'nofollow'
There comes a time when a person just has to say "enough is enough". As a longtime proponent of the "do follow" movement, it really pains me to revert this blog back to "nofollow". If you don't know what I'm talking about, then feel free to stop reading and go somewhere else.
What is "nofollow"?
The rel="nofollow" hyperlink attribute was designed by Google in 2005 as a means to prevent PageRank from being passed from link to link. Shortly after that, the WordPress software was modified to include this attribute in comment posts. The author links as well as any links embedded in the comment content would be automatically "nofollowed".
Why would WordPress adopt this "feature"? Well, blog owners do not normally have editorial control of the comments posted on their blogs. As of now, in 2009, blog owners still don't have complete editorial control over the comments posted on their blogs.
What is "do follow"?
I don't know who started the "do follow" (also called "dofollow", without the space) movement, but it existed before I created this blog in 2006. I'm guessing it started right about the time that WordPress incorporated the "nofollow" attribute in comment links.
Dozens of WordPress plugins have come and gone, which control whether this "feature" is turned off or not. I've only used two of them. Other plugins have been developed to take advantage of "do follow" links and they work well as intended. CommentLuv and KeywordLuv are just two of these plugins.
My Reasons for Going Back to "nofollow"
The comment author links have been reverted back to "nofollow" already. The embedded comment links have not. The reason I'm leaving them in the "do follow" state is because I use them for cross linking as well. It's fairly easy for me to check embedded links for spam – much easier than checking every comment author link.
As a longtime proponent of the "do follow" movement, it pains me to go back to "nofollow". I really like boosting good sites and helping them build up their PageRanks. The problem I have is the same problem that has plagued websites since they were first conceived: Comment spammers.
Although I haven't been vocal about it, I've been watching what the comment spammers do. I have a "do follow" blog list that will soon disappear. I've been checking those blogs to see what the results have been since I've had it in place and it isn't pretty. I refuse to be an unwilling instigator of comment spam.
In the past few months, I've spent more time checking comments than I have writing and that's just wrong. I have better things to do with my time. I'll still check comments because comment spammers won't read this. I'm sure they'll eventually realize that this blog no longer passes PageRank in the comments like it used to and move on to "greener" pastures.
If the comments on this blog diminish due to my return to "nofollow", then so be it. I would rather have a few good comments that pertain to the discussion at hand than all of the other kinds of comments combined.
(Image source: eVisibility "nofollow" T-Shirt at Schwag Addict)
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I think this was really a good move RT ^^
Well
Let us accept it. Enough is enough
It's a shame that you're having to take such a move. Which plugins do you use to comabt spam?
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Akismet along with WP-Spam Free. Neither works well against manual spammers.
Yeah, the manual spammers are a real problem. Luckily, they are stupid. You either get a spate of identical comments "lovely post, so this is what you've been working on" or something about adding you to their rss feed reader. Or 6 different commenters who all have the same url. I find that with my low traffic they are trivial to get rid of – though I dread the upcoming weeks when I'll be out of action for a month….
I find that Akismet is a far inferior product to Spam Karma 2, unfortunately, SK2 seems to have ceased updating so can't be used.
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These "I'm subscribing to your feed" type comments are autogenerated, not manual. They became common about a year ago when comment spammers decided to add in more social engineering into the comments.
Manual 'spammers' are largely in the eye of the beholder, aka the blog owner. Some might see anchoring on "Cheap Red Widgets" as spam while others are OK with it as long as the comment is on topic and otherwise decent.
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If the spam is seemingly on topic and the url is not controversial I will let it stand. Otherwise it's gone.
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I agree RT, I also disabled my dofollow comments in the past week and comment spam disappeared almost entirely overnight.
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I've never been a believer in either dofollow or nofollow. Both are technical issues and it's completely up to the website owner to specify relational attributes of hyperlinks in their content.
Thanks to google ridiculously advertising their link policy, we've had only spammers taking advantage of these features and lead to google penalizing sites passing on genuine links as well.
The way I see it, google wanted to have the cake and eat it too. They didn't mind so called "spam" links so long as they are redirected via google adsense, so that they can make money through clicks, but the moment website owners want to put any other link to make money, bang – they penalized page rankings.
The other side of the story is what you mentioned – spammers getting enthusiastic about the valid links and trying to abuse google's page ranking system – and in the process making life difficult for bloggers like us.
In the blog software I've designed, I've done two things:
1. No HTML in comments, including links. This saves a lot of headache for me, and people who want to share links can just share the text of the link which can be copied and pasted in the browser bar.
2. Nofollow in comment links, as I think the best way to compliment people is by linking to them yourself in whatever way you wish to.
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Hi RT,
Same experience here, but on a lesser scale than you (since I get less traffic). I probably delete or mark as spam as least 1 or 2 comments for every one that actually makes it to the blog … and if you count the ones that akismet catches on it's own, probably much higher than that.
As such, I quietly ditched dofollow. We'll see how long it takes people to notice.
The way I see it, I can still quite easily find ways to give good contextual followed links to my friends, who actually comment on my blog because they read what I write, and want to interact.
While those who found my site via a list on a forum or blog, or using software such as fastblogfinder will now be wasting their time.
Call me naive and idealistic, but it really saddens me that I've gotten to the point where I can't even take a compliment seriously. If someone leaves a comment saying they like my site, I want to be able to believe them.
Is that too much to ask?
Todd
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One thing that I've found is that a blog being 'do follow' will get it links, usually crappy list 'o links, but links none the less. It will appear on lists around the Internet and will usually stay there even if you go 'no follow' later.
I have seen an uptick in automated spam, particularly spam that uses social engineering tricks to try to get through such as smarmy compliments. Since Akismet and other plugins nail these I don't worry about them much beyond their entertainment value. Manual 'spamming' I'm not that concerned about since most people who do that know that to get their comment approved they've got to leave a good, keyword rich, comment.
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The manual spam I get isn't noticeable until I start comparing comments. Usually it's the same comment on several posts, from the same IP, or a copy (slightly changed) of a previous comment on the same post.
The automated spam is easy to spot, the manual spam isn't. I don't get much automated spam anymore because of the second plugin. Akismet by itself is horrid.
I appreciate your discussion here about Do Follow vs. No Follow because I've noticed a large increase in spammers coming to my main site from "do follow" lists. I haven't minded the lists per se, and I certainly wouldn't mind good quality comments from these folks, but that is not what is happening.
I'm glad Todd and Frank have voiced their opinions on Do Follow as well, and I've been considering going to No Follow to help stop the spammers from wasting my time and their own.
There are other ways to promote bloggers who leave comments, such as the plugin you use that shows a bloggers latest post along with their comment. That plugin may be what I need to start using again too.
I've seen the "KeywordLuv" plugin being used all over the net, but I haven't taken the time yet to learn how it works. Is Keyword Luv do follow or no follow?
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KeywordLuv and CommentLuv do not change the attribute either way. It's the do follow plugins that do that.
What most people don't understand is that nofollow comment links still get followed to the destination links. They just don't carry any juice with them. Essentially, it's like giving out a bunch of PR 0 links with a link weight of 0. Links without "nofollow" still carry link weight even at PR 0.
I always comment on dofollow blogs using my keywords and url, but I NEVER just post "nice post" or some other BS. I've got an established site myself and would be pretty pissed off if people did the same thing.
But hey, Keyword Luv isn't that bad either, right?
KeywordLuv was great until the manual spammers found out about it. It's still better than just a keyword by itself though.
Akismet seems to work for me on my sites. A minimal amount of spam gets through not so much that it ruins my day.
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hey RT,
I'm bummed to see this as you "showed me the light" about bloggin' and "do follow". I added Bad Behavior in conjunction with akismet. Bad behavior has almost eliminated the automated spam. I get very little manual spam, and it's easy enough to delete. I agree that the "do follow" lists are probably a bad idea. ~ Steve, the trade show guru
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"Do follow" is still a good idea for newer sites and those that don't get a lot of traffic. In my case, the spam was getting ridiculous. It doesn't help matters when an automated software program, which I won't name, is sending those kind of folks to this blog.
I thought that Keyword Luv needed a "dofollow" plugin to work properly? Do you think many folks will take KL plugin off their site due to spam now that spammers have found it too? I mean, how long do you think it will remain useful?
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There's nothing wrong with using the KeywordLuv plugin with a "nofollow" blog. The link is still followed, it just doesn't carry any juice with it. I don't think it hurts anything at all by leaving it in place. If nothing else, it makes the keyword spammers that don't use it stand out like a sore thumb.
I was about to write an actual useful insightful non spam comment, but now? Screw it…
LOL, So what you are saying David is that you cannot be bothered sharing your opinion, interacting with others, or even helping RT out, unless there is something in it for you?
That's a rather pitiful attitude.
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His comment is proof that people don't read everything included in an article. There is a short and subtle point I made and it only takes a minute to find it.
But that would require learning how to use the A tag wouldn't RT… I think someone with as little enthusiasm and energy as our friend Dave probably has more important things to put his time into! like fretting over his Alexa ranking…
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For me do follow and no follow still confeused, I thing both are technical issues and it's completely up to the website owner to specify relational attributes of hyperlinks in their content. congratulation for good move RT. thanks.
Nice info for newbie Melayu Boleh like me to know about nofollow & dofollow for seo! TQ SO MUCH 4 THIS INFO!!!
Dude that sucks. I hate spam
The only problem you will find is that spammers wont stop at that. Most of the time the spam comes from a bot and the majority of the time the bot is indifferent to if you follow or not because at some point having the link there still means something.
The point for them is all about getting hits and what percentage of those hits turns into a sale, so if the link is still on your page you will always have the idiot who clicks that link.
In the end you still have to manage your spam. Personally I use Bad Behavior, it keeps my site clean, also Project Honey Pot isn't a bad thing to sign on for as well.
And yes I still follow for most links on my site & always reserve the right to edit peoples comments and URLs.
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You're right and that's why I still check comments frequently. No amount of filtering can stop them all and I simply refuse to use the moderation queue because it's more work than it's worth.
Hi RT,
I saw that K-IntheHouse took a similar move a couple a month or so ago. I've been thinking about it too, as I just don't have time to waste moderating the comments I get. If it wasn't for the fact that I wrote KeywordLuv, I would have disabled dofollow already.
As it is, I'll probably do it anyway. I get hit pretty badly because I rank no 1 for KeywordLuv (which is what a lot of spammers search for).
DoFollow is great for newer blogs that want to get some traffic (some commentators will stick), but there comes a point where a site attracts too much comment spam. I've reached that and it sounds like you have too.
Of course, it depends on the type of site you have as to whether you actually want commentators… I quietly disabled KeywordLuv and dofollow on my jobs in China site about 6 months ago. That site is all about search engine traffic, I'm happy to have no comments!
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I am very new to internet marketing, blogs, forums etc, and I will be the first to admit that I do not understand the surface of the mega world that is the internet, but I really hope that some day I will understand at least 1% of what goes on behind the scenes and the up and coming industry of internet marketing and Search Engine Optimization.
I had never heard of the term of nofollow and dofollow, but what I am beginning to understand after searching through forum after forum, blog after blog to get a grasp of this industry, is that there are a lot of fraudulent sites, blog, forums who's only reason for been around is to grant other sites links and to help with SEO.
For a website trying to make an online living there is so much competition that it is VERY difficult to compete with all the dodgy and seemingly irrelevant sites out there.
I will get to the bottom of how to put a honest SEO strategy together in order to run a successful online business.
Perhaps I should write a separate post about this topic!
RT,
As Stephen mentioned I made the same move recently. And the reasons run the same like yours.
Even though I had a message in bold saying DoFollow and KeywordLuv disabled in my comment form, some spammers probably use automated tools and still spam. I just delete those comments.
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I have had over 60,000 spam comments for a total of around 2,500 real comments. So I have had my share of deleting crap spam comments. However, I am sure that if I removed keywordluv and do-follow I wouldn't get any comments. I just don't blog enough to have much of a following. So it's sad to see both you and K turning off do-follow. I might have to rethink if it is still worth it for me…I see comments as fresh new content though, and I wouldn't be getting much with out do-follow.
I think we should put the blame to the person who created the nofollow and dofollow. Either way its all about business. I think its just about losing some to get some. They have their own motives in choosing nofollow or dofollow, and lets just respect each other.
I agree with you, that's their right to enable dofollow or nofollow attribute.
tukang nggame
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Google created nofollow – dofollow existed since the beginning of time.
It's Google's fault.
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Yes, Google created nofollow and for their own reasons. As the most often used search engine they can get away with it… until a better search engine comes along.
Remember, Yahoo was #1 until Google came into the picture. Now they're #2.
I don't think it's Google's fault. I think spammers forced the big G to create nofollow. And spammers are also the reason why RT is bringing back nofollow in these part of the Interwebs.
I don't know if it's saddening but it's about time someone make a stand against comment spammers. Hey, I'm guilty about looking for dofollow backlinks here, but I do enjoy the discussion here and that's why I keep coming back.
Ha, I read it. I know it's a pain to check the comments, but this is just among the easiest ways to create backlinks to the site.
have you tried any of the spam plugins which do the work for you? Can't remember the name now, but I heard they are ok.
and here is the spam Stop Nail Biting!
This emphasizes the point. There's nothing wrong with including a link within the comments if the comments are real and not something someone whips out without reading the actual post. A signature link of some kind is almost always acceptable. If I didn't see the point of your comment, it would have been wiped into oblivion, but I did see the point.
every body needs to post comment to other blogs just because they want to gain something from them like:
1. traffic
2. link juice
3. friends
For me, there's no problem if other bloggers spam my blog as long as I found some useful thoughts from their comments. But if they'll just say high and hello and tell me that my blog is good, then i edit their post and strip off the URL part of their comment.
The definition of both no follow and do follow are clear enough.
Search engine like google has it's own way how they will be #1 They have their requirements in ranking a websites. Have it their way.
The asikamet plugin works nicely with wordpress.if you enable the plugin i think it is quite useful to control spameers.
[...] My friend RT has written an interesting post on the pros and cons of dofollow versus nofollow. [...]
[...] has several posts discussing the matter, so I won't delve into it here (note: evidently RT has removed Do Follow due to excessive spamming). My biggest concern would be that may appear I'm encouraging [...]
Yeah! I agree that checking comments is a pain in the neck but it's all part of a day's work as a blogger.
Your blog has so much helpful information. I can't seem to find your list of blogs that have the comment luv and keyword luv dofollow. I visited your blog in the past but it seems it has changed a little. Awesome post as usual.
I seem to misread. I see what you are saying now.
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I have several WP blogs but I have not looked at the follow settings. Based upon this discussion that is something I should pay more attention to, so this has been valuable. It also appears that cross linking comment links can help. I do not fully understand that so will research this tactic.
thanks
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This kind of hurts the readers who are here everyday though.
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Not really. You should look at the source of this page and look at your comment.
Since I started blogging just few months ago, I now believe that making my blog dofollow created amazing increase in visitors. So I am keeping that way and dofollow is like a lottery ticket for me to get the amount of traffic I wanted.
Sherry
do follow make your site easy to get more traffic
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For now (well soon, actually…I need to download the "dofollow" plugin for WP 1st), I'm with Sherry on this one. Because I offer a service that interests such a broad spectrum of people and can benefit so many, I'm willing to roll the dice with the junkers for the traffic. Of course after a few months of dealing with an endless supply of bulldung on my blog, I may be eating these very words!
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Rob,
As someone who has used dofollow plugins in the very recent past, here's the problem, as I see it …
Yes, you may see an increase in traffic as a result of being "do follow".
Yes, you will probably get more comments.
But …
The percentage of commenters who are actually interested in contributing to productive conversation will be extremely LOW … and most of those who are an active part of your blog's community, most likely would comment anyway, even if the links are nofollow.
As for traffic, people who find your blog via a dofollow list, or a program like fast blog finder are unlikely to even read your posts, let alone click on your ads. Their ONLY reason for being on your site is to get a link.
Dofollow commenter traffic is actually worse than social network (ie, StumbleUpon) traffic, as far as being "valuable".
In my opinion, it's a total waste of time. The ROI is at best extremely low … and in many cases it may even a net negative.
Todd
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Looks like I found you too late, but I'll still be back to read your posts. Will you continue to use keywordLuv? It wouldn't make much sense if it's nofollow links.
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Nofollow still produces backlinks, but the backlinks don't have juice. KeywordLuv still makes sense, even for a nofollow blog.
so, nofollow or dofollow ?? what the best ??
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no follow also have comments spammer..
My comment spam is way less than it was before I made the change. It's now 2 or 3 a day instead of 100 or more.
Comment spam is terrible these days. On one of my blogs related to celebrity news, I had got around 400 spam comments(mostly linking to pharmacy or adult sites!) I changed all comments links to no-follow and also installed the askimet plugin.
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Do Follow can make your blog with thousand spam and no follow also have spam
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[...] recent months. First K-IntheHouse turned off DoFollow as part of a redesign of Shankrila, then RT turned off DoFollow as well. Sometime previously, Terence Chang also turned off [...]
I find this very sad to hear, because I had been thinking about making my blog dofollow for a while, and just last week I did it! So I wanted to head over here to suggest you take my blog up in your list… Why must there be always people who destroy something that was meant for such a good purpose?
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Well, at least the commentluv portion is still dofollow because it's in the comment text.
I still use a dofollow plugin, but I've had a one month timeout set up from the beginning. So, my 4 or 5 readers who comment get a follow link only after a month. If I had more traffic, I might have more problems and that might make a difference in my thinking. I can certainly understand RT's reasoning on this.
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I am lucky in that I don't get the volume of SPAM others seem to get, but I DID go back to moderating the comments after a spate of naked britney and paris manual spammers started hitting me, to the point where I had more comments linked to those places than I did legitimate comments. So once the spammers clued on that I was moderating, they slowed to an almost non existant trickle. Shame you had to go back to no follow.
[...] one of my favorite blogs, Untwisted Vortex, went from dofollow back to nofollow due to people leaving garbage for [...]
Sadly, you're right. The nofollows are coming everywhere, and the dofollows are quite hard to find. Altrough, thanks for the great reading
I can understand your reasoning for going back to no-follow. Comment Spam is so prevalent. Do Follow comments are more the rarity than the norm these days
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I heard some of bloggers back to 'nofollow' with the same reason. They're tired with useless comments trying to get the backlink traffic. The link building strategy hast to be changed if number of bloggers who quit "dofollow" increasing.
DoFollow, NoFollow and Follow all over the place! It's all SO confusing I could scream.
Will someone please come up with a way of blogging that is a little more stable and constant?
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I enjoyed reading your post. I see many people in the IT field picking up internet marketing as their small time career. Internet marketing is growing slowly in the society.
With comment spam getting harder and harder to combat, I can't really blame you.
Hi,
Keywordluv is great plug-in.It allow us to leave our name in the name field.
Thanks for sharing the information.
Even though I had a message in bold saying DoFollow and Keyword Luv disabled in my comment form, some spammers probably use automated tools and still spam. I just delete those comments…
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It's a shame indeed, but I wouldn't blame you. It's a real tragedy to spend more time checking out the comments than writing, so yes, I can understand your reasons for taking this action. Anyway, thanks nonetheless for still passing link juice to commenters latest posts.
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I think nofollow is a good way to avoid spam. On my blogs i did it also to change all outgoing links from comments to nofollow.
Greetings from germany.
I love keywordluv thanks man.
wait so i'm confused is commentluv dofollow for your name?
Not for your name. Just the included blog post title and only on blogs that have the comment content dofollow.
It's a shame that it's come to this, but if it takes hours a day to get rid of the spam then i don't blame you! Lets hope this blog will carry on being successful without do follow.
I've been a firm believer in honest linking by providing references to the resources you've used to create the article, post, eBook or whatever you've created. A bit like the academic white papers and Wikipedia is created, providing detailed information and links to the sources. And by "do following" those links, you pass the "juice" where it belongs, to the original source.
But do-follow in comments? No way, too many spammers out there. Sharing the love with Comment-/KeywordLuv is great, but it brings the same problems as do-following, but I guess that's another subject.
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well all and all do follow make sense. but all i want to say that i just hate spammers.
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